Does Baptism Save?

Episode 7 dives into one of the biggest questions in Christianity: does baptism actually save you? In this conversation, we wrestle with Scripture, church tradition, and the tension between outward signs and inward transformation—while asking what baptism was always meant to represent in the life of a believer.

Transcript

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So we have questions. What your question is that you have an answer. Question is the people to have this one. Let's get it. Let's leave it. Let's go there. What's going on, Landed Podcasting, and welcome to yet another episode of Let's Go There. This is lucky number seven, Russ. As we know in biblical times, seven is the number of perfection. Maybe that's a sign to us, Russ, as this is the last episode that we're ever gonna do because God's like, we get it, dude. We know that you can do podcasts, just be done. Especially after what we're gonna be talking about today. We're super excited as always. I'm joined uh in the podcast studio with Russ, the bus, uh Williams. And so today we are excited. I know I say that every time, and people are like, you say the same thing every time, but it's true. Russ and I love being in this room, able to answer questions that you have, because a lot of times the questions that you have, we have as well. And so it's a really good time. Before this podcast, I get to go over the outline that we get to go over, and Russ and I get to talk about it sometimes. And and sometimes there's things that I'm excited about because it's stuff that I've studied and I'm proficient in it, and it's like, man, I get this question all the time. I'm able to answer it left and right. It's really fun, it's really easy. People that listen to it are like, yes, now there's a revival happening. But then there's sometimes people ask questions that are less than easy, are less than neat. And honestly, it's a question that people ask that when I look at it, it gives me a little bit of anxiety because there's a big difference in the two camps of people that believe one thing versus another thing. And this is one of them. This is probably one of the first podcasts that we're going to have that's going to be pretty scandalous. Maybe not scandalous, but there's gonna be things in this that people are gonna disagree with. And this is the first thing. Before I even introduce it, you already know what it's about. Uh, but if you're listening, I just want to introduce this. Man, we want in this podcast that if you disagree with something, what we do not want is we don't want people to be pushed away. We don't want disunity. I believe unity is not agreement. Like if we agree on everything, we're not unified, we just agree on everything. I believe when Jesus is praying in John 17 that that we as people, that we as his body may be one as he and the Father are one, that he's praying for people that are gonna disagree on things. So, so Father, when they disagree on things, when they disagree on ways to parent, when they disagree on ways they need to be married, when they disagree on theology, God, would they continue to remind themselves that they are one? Would they continue to remind themselves that this is a big topic, but it is not necessarily an essential topic? And so what we're gonna be talking about today is a fun question, is a question that people that listen to this podcast, especially in the city that we live in, are gonna disagree monumentally on. And what we're gonna be answering the question of today is does baptism save? Do I need to be baptized to be saved? And as we talked about, Christians disagree on this. And what I want to say from the very beginning is what we're gonna be talking about, I'm gonna give you the answer here in a second so you don't have to sit through 22 more minutes of this podcast just so you can find an answer. Uh, but we are not minimizing baptism in this. When we give our theology on baptism, I'm not saying it's not important. I'm not saying throw it out the window because the Bible makes it very clear that baptism is incredibly important. In fact, I believe it's the number one command, the first command that Jesus gives his people that after they get saved, they need to be baptized. So that kind of answers the question that you know is coming. Does baptism save? The short answer of it is no, baptism does not save. Do I believe that somebody can go to heaven and not be baptized? Absolutely, 100%. And I'm gonna set the tone in the very beginning, and this is just a core foundational truth and pillar that this podcast and this church is built on, salvation is through Christ alone, by faith alone. Ephesians 2.8.9, which we're gonna go into here in this podcast, for by grace, God's grace, God's unmerited favor, have you been saved through faith. It's not your own doing, it's not a result of works. There's no physical thing that we can do that could ever earn us the love of God. And so for us to say that a physical thing that we watch, and someone going under the water, whether it's in a bathtub or it's in a baptismal on a stage in a church or it's a pond or the Jordan River, like Jesus got baptized in, we do not believe, because that is physical, that that's a work, that that could ever do anything to earn the unmerited, unearned grace of God. We believe it's by faith through grace in Christ alone. And so, what is baptism then? Why is this a big deal? And really why it's a big deal, and we're gonna get into this, is there's some scripture that when you read it, you're like, but it sounds like here it's by faith alone. For by grace you have been saved through faith. It mentions baptism not one time in a lot of the salvific verses, but then you look at Acts chapter two, and then you look at 1 Peter chapter 3, and you're like, but it makes it seem like that if you don't get baptized, you can't be saved. And really what we need to understand first about baptism, and first about who our God is, is our God loves using physical signs. Sometimes they're called memorials, sometimes they're called Ebenezer, sometimes they're called festivals, sometimes they're called feasts. Our God is a God that loves the tangible because I believe that he created us as his image bearers to hold on to the tangible, to hold on to the physical. That's why we love celebrations. That's why people love birthdays. That's memorializing. Hey, I was born. I think it's funny, honestly, that people celebrate birthdays. I'm like, you didn't do anything. If anyone should be celebrated on your birthday, it's your mom. Like, goodness gracious, that woman went through hell and back to have you be born and you just did nothing and then did nothing for another two years. Russ has kids, he knows what I'm talking about. But they're physical reminders. There's things that God uses. So, like in in the Bible, like one of the first big physical reminders that God does is in the very beginning of Genesis with the flood. He floods the earth, destroys everybody except one family. And God promises Noah and the rest of his descendants, which is which is us, that he will never flood the earth again. But he doesn't just use words, he gives a sign. And so a rainbow gets up in the sky. And so when you look at the rainbow now, you now see that this is the reminder that God will never flood the earth again. And there's actually some really fun imagery in that that we don't have time to go into. But when you look at the Passover meal, like every time in the Old Testament that you see them coming back into the land, God is reminding them to celebrate the Passover. And what that meal is symbolizing is reminding them that of the time that God rescued them from their oppressor, Egypt. So it's a physical meal that's reminding them of God's provision. In the Old Testament, when you look at circumcision, that was an outward sign of an inward faith, which we're going to go into. And what I believe baptism is is the exact same thing. It is that sign, it's that physical reminder to us of something that we cannot see because we as human beings long to see stuff. And God is always calling us to have faith, which is the evidence of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. But our God is a God that is good and gives us physical things that we can hold on to, that we can touch, a baptism that we can play back for us in the 21st century on a video to remind ourselves of that moment that we're standing in front of people and we're telling people what happened inside of us. We're looking at those videos, we're looking at the rainbow, we're eating the Passover meal on circumcision. It was a physical reminder every single day that there is something different about me than the other nations, and that when somebody else, when you get intimate with them, it's a reminder to them that I have been set apart. It's it's very physical and and and going into circumcision. I love Romans chapter 4 and Galatians chapter 5. And so it's fun about the Bible. If if you ever want to understand Galatians and Romans, both were written by Paul. Romans is 16 chapters, Galatians is six. Galatians a lot of times is referred to as a mini Romans. So a lot of times when you see stuff in Romans, you'll also see it reflected in a shorter way in the book of Galatians. And Romans 4 and Galatians 5 both talk about circumcision. And in Romans chapter 4, it goes back to the person of Abraham. So it's talking about faith. And in Romans 1 through 3, it's talking about salvation or talking about sin, that there's a problem, that nobody is righteous. Nobody is without excuse. Creation shows that God, that there is a God. Our conscience begs that there's a God. For the Jews, the law begs that there is a God. There is nobody without excuse, and none is righteous, no, not one. But the good news is through Jesus Christ, is that our salvation has been made possible apart from works. It's now apart from the law, it's now by faith in what Christ did on the cross. And in Romans chapter 4, what Paul is doing is kind of this argument that people are thinking, okay, if it's by faith, then what about Abraham? Jesus hadn't died yet. Abraham, which is the father of the Israelite nation, how was he saved then if Jesus hadn't died yet? And what Paul says to him is he goes back to Genesis 15, 6 and he says that God saw Abraham's faith. Abraham had faith, and it says that God counted to him as righteousness. And so Abraham believed God. What I love about the Abrahamic covenant is if you guys ever look at that, it's in Genesis 12, Genesis 15, and I believe either Genesis 17 or 19. It's probably stuff I should have written there, Russ. But there's three different places that the Abrahamic covenant is found in. And each time it kind of expands it and makes it more, uh, gives us more understanding of what's happening. And when you see Abraham do a covenant with God, what the way they did covenants back in the day, an agreement, is they would get animals and they would cut them in half, and they would put them on either side of this trench that they would dig. And then there'd be many trenches that go into this trench, and these animals that are cut in half, the blood would then pour into this center trench. And let's say Russ, you and I want to make a covenant with each other back in the day, we would do that, and then we'd kind of lift our robe up and we would walk, both of us would walk the trench. We'd cover our feet in blood. And essentially what that covenant says is now that my feet have touched this blood, if if I don't come through on my end of the covenant, then you can make me like one of these animals. Which is like that's a pretty big thing. We're saying if I don't come through, you can kill me. Like that's how serious they took covenants back in the day. God made a covenant with Abraham, and he told Abraham, My man, like this is the Ben Pukis translation of it, I'm gonna bless you. I'm gonna give you a land that your descendants are gonna be able to be in. I'm gonna give you a seed that you don't have any kids, but you're gonna have a lot of kids, and it's gonna be more than the stars that you see in the sky, and I'm gonna give you a blessing that whoever blesses you, I will bless you, whoever curses you, I will curse you. I will be your God and you will be my people. The only thing I ask you to do, Abraham, is I ask you to be blameless. The way I created you all the way back in the beginning, as my image bearer, I ask you to reflect my holiness. So essentially he tells Abraham, I'll do my end of the covenant, but if you sin even one time, you break your end of the covenant. And so God has Abraham construct this trench in the very middle. And it says that Abraham, after he killed the animals, that he started shooing some of the birds away from the carcasses. Abraham was terrified to walk in the middle of the trench because Abraham knew in that moment, if my toe even touches this blood, I and all of my descendants, if I'm even lucky to have a descendant, are doomed to die forever. Because Abraham knew he could not uphold his end of the covenant. There's no way that he could uphold his end of the covenant because he knew that he could not be blameless and righteous the way that he was designed to be blameless and righteous from the very beginning. And so he was delaying it. And so finally, what God did is that he said that he put a deep sleep on Abraham. And then it says that a pot and a flame goes through the trench and back. And this is what's so beautiful about that symbolism. God went through the trench for himself. He said, Hey, I will give you a land, I will give you a seed, I will give you a blessing, and if I don't come through on that, you can make me like these animals. And then God went through it again. And what God was saying is, Abraham, I'm gonna walk through the blood on your behalf. And so if you ever do anything wrong, if you are ever not blameless, if you are ever not righteous, then you can also make me like one of these animals. I mean, do you see that all the way in Genesis 12? It's pointing to Jesus Christ. It's everything in the Old Testament is pointing to Jesus. And what Abraham had faith in is God, I don't know how you're gonna come through on your end of the covenant, but you're saying you can't, but you're going to make a way. So I am going to have faith and I'm going to have trust that you're going to make a way. And so the old covenant, I think we always think it's two different means of salvation. It's never been two different means of salvation, but Romans 4 says it's always been by faith and faith alone. And in the old covenant, it's looking forward to the person of Jesus. And you think about, like, people think it's a sacrificial system, which is the old covenant. That's not true because Abraham did this and had this covenant with God, and God counted his faith as righteousness even before Moses was even a thought. Like Abraham is his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather. There's hundreds of years left before Moses even walks the earth and is able to help institute the sacrificial system with God. It was always been about faith and it's looking forward to somehow, some way, God said that he's going to make a way. That's what the Abrahamic covenant's about. That's what the Noahic covenant is about. That's what the the law is about in Exodus. It's all about, I don't know how, God, but you know I can't do it. God, you gave us 613 laws in the book of Exodus. I don't know how, but you promised, and I have faith that you're going to make a way to save me from my sin. That's inward faith. That's evidence of things. It's faith in things that you can't see. It's faith in things that you don't have evidence in. And so what God does in that is he gives them an outward sign is that because you are people who are people of faith, you're now going to have an outward sign of circumcision. And in Romans 4, it says, when was Abraham saved? Was he saved after circumcision or was he saved before circumcision? And it says very clear in Romans 4 10, it says that he was saved before circumcision. Circumcision did not save Abraham, but it was an outward sign of an inward reality. God's all about covenant themes throughout the Old Testament. God continues to say, You can't, but I will. God is the one that makes the way. And baptism is the exact same thing as circumcision. In fact, Galatians says, What good is circumcision? There is no value in circumcision. It doesn't matter if you've been circumcised or uncircumcised, it's always been about faith. If your heart is not circumcised, if if your faith is not in you, it doesn't matter what your outward signs are. And I believe what baptism is, is baptism is the new covenant, which is now looking back in the past towards Jesus instead of looking in the forward to what God is potentially going to do, it's now looking back at the person of Jesus. And it's all it's faith in what Jesus did on the cross and by leaving that tomb empty. In the same way that circumcision is an outward sign of an inward faith, that sign that God loves to impart to us so that we can see baptism is the exact same thing. And so in the same way, we need to ask ourselves: am I saved before baptism or after baptism? We have to ask ourselves the same question. Am I saved before circumcision in the old covenant or after circumcision? Well, Abraham was saved when he had faith, and the Bible makes it very clear in Romans chapter 4 that he was saved before circumcision. And so in the same way, am I saved before baptism or am I saved after baptism? It's the exact same thing. It's the exact same kind of faith, two different kinds of signs. I must be saved before baptism. Baptism is an outward sign. Baptism is this outward sign of this inward faith in Jesus. And so it really is because I am saved, I now get baptized. Not I get baptized, so God will save me. Really, I like to say it like this. I know people say it's an outward sign of an inward faith. It's really this scripturally, it's an outward sign of an inward seal. Our faith is the thing that seals us. And now in the New Testament, now that we have been made righteous because of the cross and the empty tomb, the Holy Spirit is now in us, and because of our faith, we receive the Spirit, and the Spirit is that seal because of our faith. And what baptism is, is that thing that we can go back to, kind of like a marriage ceremony. I love marriage ceremonies because I hate I hate weddings. You know, don't invite me to your wedding unless I'm doing it or in it, right, Russ? Russ is shaking his head, yes. Uh but I love weddings because it's very easy for us to just go to a courthouse and like sign a piece of paper. That's not a big moment. Weddings are important because that's a covenant. You see where I'm going here? Everything's about a covenant. Everything is about here's my end of the bargain. And what God knew from the very beginning is we could not uphold our end of the bargain. So he upheld both his end and our end, taking our place in death. And what marriage is is there's nothing about a wedding ceremony that makes people married. What makes people married is the covenant that they make with each other, and the ceremony is a big moment that they can look back to, that date that they can celebrate to say, no, no, no. We not only made a covenant with each other with our words, we invited all of our friends and all of our family, and maybe people that we don't want to be there, but we feel obligated to invite and to say in front of all of those people, I am choosing this person. Till death do I part. Doesn't matter if I get sick, doesn't matter if I stop liking them, doesn't matter if we fight, doesn't matter if I start wanting to go in this direction and they start going in this direction, I am choosing this person. And these people are here at this big ceremony to remind me of that. Baptism is the exact same thing. And so when you look at these salvific verses, when you look at Ephesians 2, 8, 9, we've talked about that. For by grace you have been saved through faith. Romans 10, 9 and 10. For if you believe in your confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. When you look at 1 Corinthians chapter 15, Paul gives a full gospel presentation in verses 1 through 8. He died, he was buried, he rose again. If baptism saved, then Paul doesn't mention it in there. So this is my thing. So this is the example I like to give. Let's say I have the cure of cancer, and I know this can be like a there is no cure of cancer. I don't believe there is a cure of cancer, uh, and I pray that there is. I've had family members and people who have been radically affected by it. But if there was a cure for cancer and I needed to take prescription drug A, prescription drug B, and do activity A, there's three things I need to do to be cured of my cancer. When I explain to people how they can be cured or how they can be saved by cancer, I'm gonna mention all three things. I'm gonna say, take prescription A, prescription B, and do activity A, and you will be healed. Now, in one conversation, let's say Russ, the bus, has cancer, and I explained to him, hey, take prescription A and you'll be good. Am I a loving friend? Is that even true? It's not. Like that'd be crazy. That would be completely asinine and horrifically unloving for me to not tell Russ all of the steps that they need to take. And I think the reason why it can be so hard is there's hard passages like in Acts 2.38. Peter just gave this big gospel presentation, and people say, now what must we do? And he says, repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins. And people read that and they say, okay, in order for me to be saved, the first thing I need to do is repent. And then the next thing I need to do is be baptized. The Bible, nowhere, except in these verses right here, say that you need to repent to be saved. Like repentance literally means to turn away from sin. If that was the case, if what I needed to do to be saved is to repent and be baptized, then I'm gonna start going to a bunch of AA meetings where people are finding victory and turning away from their alcoholism, and I'm gonna start dunking them in a bunch of bathtubs. It is not a result of works. I believe what's happening here because in scripture, one, we need to know crypt scripture cannot hear me say this. Scripture cannot contradict scripture. It's impossible for that. God cannot contradict himself. And so when you read it somewhere and it seems different somewhere else, it's probably because we contextually don't understand what's going on. Maybe there's a translation error that we have, or maybe we just aren't reading it the way that we're supposed to read it. God does not make scripture confusing on purpose. I think sometimes it's confusing because we are limited in our knowledge. But the word for, this is a really important thing. The word for in Greek can also be a word for because. And I believe what's happening in these hard passages where it says repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. I believe when you see those things, these people are hearing the gospel presented and they're going, Hey, hey, Peter, man, like that's crazy. I just believe that. I believe that Jesus is my savior. I believe that I'm a sinner. I believe he saved me from my sin. I believe he died on that cross and he left that tomb empty three days later, and I believe he lives today. Now, what do I do in response? I have this excitement, I have this vigor, I've been saved. And what Peter tells him here is, okay, stop living the way you're living. Stop living the old life. You've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer you who live, but Christ who lives in you. You have been died in his resurrection, you have died in his crucifixion, you've been raised to life in his resurrection. Live the new life that he created you to live. And now have a moment, have a memorial, have an outward sign that you can invite other people to so they can hold you to that repentance. Repentance matters deeply, but repentance alone doesn't save. Baptism matters deeply, but it's not things that save. Repentance is not just behavior modification. Repentance is turning toward God in faith. No one can actually repent unless they have the power of the Holy Spirit in them. No one can change the way they want unless they have the power of the Spirit in them. And really quickly, 1 Peter 3 21, it now says we're talking about Noah going through the flood. And it says that that they got saved through the waters. And it says now baptism saves you. And people look at that and they verse by culture, they choose that one verse and they're like, see, that means that it saves you. That's not what that means. It says that it now saves you, but it's not a washing of the dirt. But what it actually does is it's an appeal to God that it saves you from a bad conscience. It gives you a clear conscience for God, which I believe is going back to an outward sign that when you're with your husband or with your wife and you're married, you're like, should we continue to be married? There's going to be this moment where you're going to be reminded, no, we were at that ceremony. We looked at each other in the eyes, we held each other's hands, and we can now have a good conscience saying no matter how we feel about it, we had that moment where we made a covenant with each other. And so in the moments where we feel like maybe God doesn't love us, in the moments where we don't feel loved, in the moments where we feel like dirty, rotten sinners, and we're going back to our sin like a dog returns to his vomit, we can go back to that baptism and say, no, no, this is the outward sign of my inward faith. I remember that moment. My friends and my family were there, and I professed Jesus to be the Christ. I profess that I was a sinner. I professed that he died for all of my sin, 100% of it, including the one that I am struggling with right now. And he rose again three days later, leaving that sin in the grave. And he lives today. And I put my faith in him way back then, and now I can have a good conscience and I can look the devil straight in the eye and said, I had a marriage ceremony with my Jesus. And it was that baptism that I had. I got saved and I was saved before my baptism, just like Abraham was saved before his circumcision. God is a physical God, and I believe baptism matters deeply. I'm not saying it doesn't. I believe if people get saved and they choose not to get baptized, that's a crazy thought to me. That the first He makes it clear, Matthew 28. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations. And what does it say? Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and teaching them how to do all that I've observed you to do. So listen to this. Watch, it's language, it's important. What are we to do? We're to make what disciples. Who is a disciple? A disciple is someone who is a mini Christ, who's following Jesus. You cannot follow Jesus, you cannot keep his commandments unless you love him, unless you have faith in him. So then what are we supposed to do? There's two different verbs make disciples, baptizing and teaching. What are we to do to disciples? What are we to do to people once they put their faith in Jesus? We baptize them. Here's an Ebenezer, here's a memorial, here's a reminder, here's your marriage ceremony. And now teach them. Teach them what Jesus has commanded them to do. And I just think, man, like faith responds. When you have faith, you respond in obedience. Yes, you turn from sin, but the first thing that you do is be baptized. So I think it'd be crazy that the first thing we do as a believer is to disobey the first commandment that Jesus gave us. It's vitally important. And I will tell you, I tell this to people all the time. The Lord has blessed me with a lot of opportunities over the last 12 years, 11 years to share Jesus with people. And there's been a handful of people who have given their lives to Jesus. There's never been a single person that I've ever led to Jesus that I did not also lead to the waters of baptism. It's vitally important. But hear me says it is not salvific and it does not save us. Because I believe that when you start adding to the gospel and adding to faith in Christ alone, you're adding to the gospel and you are in very grave danger of adding to something you're never supposed to add to. And then is it even really faith? It's not faith plus a little bit of works, it's not faith plus a little bit of baptism. Anything added to faith is not actually faith. And I believe it is it's heresy. That's my opinion. Uh that's the way I read scripture, and that's my hermeneutical stance. But baptism doesn't compete with faith. Baptism flows from faith. Circumcision didn't save Abraham, he was saved before circumcision in the same way we are saved before baptism. But baptism is the joyful public declaration that we belong to him, just like a marriage ceremony. And so if this stirred up questions in you, man, you can see there's a link on every single podcast that we post telling people to click on it. You can ask questions, you can send us an audio link. Please be nice. Russ reads them first. No, he doesn't. I read them first. But we'd love to hear from you guys. And so that's the end of this episode. Just baptism save. We hope that you enjoyed the context. Man, click subscribe if you liked it. Next week, though, we're excited as we go on this tangent of talking about really hard topics. The question that we're gonna be answering is what's up with all those denominations, man? Why do we have so many denominations? Who's right? Who's wrong? Does it even matter? We're gonna talk about that next week. But we love you guys, and until then, uh, man, ask us questions, slide into our DMs. We'd love to answer any and all the questions that you may have. We'll see you next week as we talk about different denominations. But until then, hook us out.