How Do I Love My LGBTQ Friends?

How do you love your LGBTQ friends, family members, neighbors, and coworkers well? In a culture where conversations often become hostile, political, or deeply personal, many Christians are left wondering how to hold firmly to their convictions while reflecting the heart of Jesus. In this episode we'll explore what it means to speak truth without sacrificing love, why Jesus consistently moved toward people rather than away from them, and how Christians can build genuine relationships with those they may disagree with. Whether you're wrestling with these questions yourself or simply want to love people better, this episode is an invitation to follow the example of Christ with both grace and truth.

Transcript

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So we have questions. But there are questions that you haven't asked. Because either they're going to be after either. Questions that most people don't ask. We believe that is a remote question. Let's look at them together. Let's leave it. Let's go there. What's going on, Land Podcasting, and welcome to Let's Go There, where we believe honest questions deserve honest answers. And joining me always in the podcast studio is my man, Russell Williams, the man with the plan, the man that knows cameras and technology more than I ever will in my entire life. If we haven't been able to meet yet, my name is Ben Pukas. I am, as always, your host here at Let's Go There. And again, we believe in this podcast that honest questions deserve honest answers. And part of honest questions is we ask the questions that we are really thinking about, even if it's going to be a question that is a little triggering, even if it's going to be a question that is going to leave people very uncomfortable. And even if it's a question that could potentially even offend some people. Because what we're trying to do in the Christian life is we're trying to love people like Jesus loved people. And in order to do that, sometimes we got to get in the weeds with other people. Sometimes we really just got to get our hands dirty. And one of the question that we're going to be answering today is a question that has been weaponized. It's a topic that people have disagreed on. It's a topic that people avoid altogether because just the title of this right here is going to cause some attention from people. And I'm going to say this right now. We've said this the last, I feel like two weeks, talking about baptism and denominations. It's things that are going to offend people that do not agree. My goal in this, and I hope you guys know this every single week, I do not think I have all the answers to everything. Again, I said last week, I do believe that there are things that I'm going to go see God in heaven one day and he's going to be like, bro, you got that wrong. I think sometimes I'm going to be way over here, way too far away from grace and I'm too much truth. And then over here I'm too much grace and not enough truth. But what we're trying to do is just because it's awkward, just because there's not a for sure A plus B equals C answer should never mean that we avoid the questions that matter because this is why I love this question, people. This is why we're going to answer it. Loving LGBTQ people. Right. How do I love LGBTQ people in my life? The reason I love that question is because on the other end of it is a person. It's not just a community, it's not just a movement, it's not just legislation, it's not politics, but there are real life people on the other end of this question. And this is something we have to get right because the people in the LGBTQ community, maybe the people like people asking this question. There's questions like my roommate, I believe, is is gay. How do I love them? My roommate not only has same-sex attraction, but my roommate also is living in a homosexual lifestyle. My friend is is living like how do I do that? How do I love them? Because I know that that's not God's design. I know that's not the way that God created it to be. So what do I do then? Because it feels like if I love them too much, then I'm affirming of it, and then I'm not doing what God has called me to do. And if I love them, you know, not enough, then if I tell to them too much truth, they're gonna run away from me. And I don't want them to do that. So there's this middle ground and there's this gray area, and what do we do? And before we get into what do we do, we first have to go to scripture. That's where we're always gonna go. We're gonna start with scripture. In the middle, we're gonna be in scripture. At the end, we're gonna be in scripture, we're gonna soak in it. I I had a pastor say one time, he says, My goal and job as a pastor is to sometimes tell really funny jokes so people can laugh and then just run as fast as I can to Jesus. And so when it comes to sexuality of any kind, when especially when we're talking about how do we love people in the LGBTQ community, I think we first have to understand what God designed and what God's plan is for sex in the first place. You know, you hear arguments, especially that TikTok is so big right now, you hear that the word homosexuality wasn't in the Bible until like the mid-1900s. And that's a true statement, actually. That's a full true statement. But the word homosexuality wasn't a word until just a few years before that. So it's not that homosexuality has been a word forever in the English language, and then all of a sudden people are like, we really just want to like like stick it to people in the LGBTQ community, so we're gonna make up something that isn't there. Like when you look at scripture, you see it in the Old Testament for sure, you see it in the book of Leviticus. You've like it's Leviticus 18 and Leviticus 22, if I'm remembering correctly, where it talks about the fact that if a man shares sexual relations with another man, and in the other version, if a if a woman has sexual relations with another woman, then actually what it says is that person should be put to death because it's outside the design of God. But people will say, like, I don't think this is something we really need to be talking about because it's not in the New Testament. And I believe 100% that it is in the New Testament. You even look at Romans chapter one when it's talking about that the people that have never heard about God. Like, do they have an excuse? Like, can they still get to heaven even though they've never heard about God? And what Paul says is he goes, no, creation is the thing that begs that there has to be a God. You see the design all around you, you see our fingerprints, and you see the way that that photosynthesis happens, and the sun is the perfect distance away from the earth to give us warmth, but not too much warmth and not too far away that we end up in an ice age. Like you see, there's creation, but what happened, and what Paul uses is that is instead of using that information to draw them to their creator, they have exchanged natural relations, like with a man and a woman, with relations with themselves. And in Romans chapter one, Paul very clearly lies, lays out that what a life outside of Jesus, outside of the design of God looks like, is a life where we're not having sex with a man if you're a woman, or a woman if you're a man inside the confines of marriage. It's when you're doing it with other people outside of marriage of the same sex. But let's say, for some reason, that that's not there. There's some words in the New Testament that can be translated homosexuality, but people are like, that's not what Paul meant. He actually meant pedophilia. He actually meant where men are having sex with other men against their will, like prostitution. And man, we can argue about that toward blue in the face, and here's the deal we'll we'll never come up with a true answer because we don't know because Paul's dead. We'll get to heaven one day and we're gonna ask Paul what'd you mean? We can't do that. So right now, this is just a circular argument. But what we have to do is we have to go to a to a to a base, and the base is God's design. You see, when God created everything, he created it perfectly, he created it without flaw. He created it in the way that he designed it, like he designed it for a reason. And the way that he designed sex in the very beginning, he lays out in the very beginning in Genesis. He says that a man should leave his father and mother and hold fast and cling to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. The way that God designed sex in the very beginning is not with a man and another man and a woman or another woman or for men to have sex with as many women that they want, and vice versa. The God's design for sex and sexual identity is that a husband have sex, has sex with his wife, and a wife has sex with her husband. That's the way that God designed it from the very beginning. But what the devil did in the beginning and what he continues to do today is what he does so well, is the devil distorts the good design of God to confuse us and make it into our own thing. Because here's the deal this is actually a very big truth. The devil can't create anything. The only thing that can create is God and his image bearers because we are made in the image, in the design, in the fingerprint of God. We were made to reflect the image of God. The only thing that can create is God. And so the devil does not create sexual distortion, he just distorts the good design that God gave. And that's what the devil has done from the very beginning. He's distorted identity, he distorts intimacy, he distorts sexuality, he distorts distorts relationships. But God designed sex to be between a man and a woman. It's not rooted, and hear me say this, it's not rooted in hatred. I don't hate people that go outside of God's design, because if I would hate people that go outside of the design of God, then I would have to hate myself. I do it all the time. Like, this is listen, look at me for a second, people. You're like, I'm on Apple Podcasts, I can't. Well, go on YouTube and look at me for a second. Like this is why Jesus came to die. Because the the temptation that the devil gave to Adam and Eve were you don't need to do things the way that God asked you to. You can do things in your own way and live, and what God is actually doing is he's holding out on you. And so for me, man, I'll I'll I'll talk about sexual distortion for a second. I've lived a sexually distorted life. I've I've I've never had same-sex attraction, but that doesn't make me better than anybody. I've had sexual distortion. Yeah, I was I was uh I was addicted to pornography for years of my life, years of my life, uh looking at images and doing things in a way that God did not design it to be in. Listen, and that's why Jesus came to die for me. And so the Bible makes it very clear what sex is. The Bible also makes it very clear that we're not going to get it right, and because we didn't get it right, that's why Jesus came to die. But what do we do then with this information? What do we do with people that are that are living outside of God's design just actively? Like, how do we love them? How do we love them without hurting our own morals, without showing them that we're living in a where we love what they're doing and affirming their lifestyle? Like, but I believe that the reason why this is a question that has to be talked about is I believe over time the church has completely and utterly gotten this question wrong. Because I think we we focus so much on like, well, we have the truth and we need to stand firm in the truth, and people need to know that that we don't agree with what they what with what they're doing. And so what happens so often is we have treated people in the LGBTQ community different than any other community and different than any other person who has lived in a lifestyle of sin. We'll we'll have a drug addict, we'll have an alcoholic, we'll have someone that we know is is living in a domestic violence situation where they're abusing people and they walk into the church and we welcome with open arms, like we know you're broken, but can I introduce you to Jesus? And then someone walks into our church in the LGBTQ community, and the natural thing isn't to say, Hey, do you want to sit next to me? The natural thing is to go find a church member, to find a church leader and say, What are we supposed to do with this? Are they even allowed to be here? Like, I want to say this right now, Fellowship Bible Church. If anyone in the LGBTQ community ever walked into our church, please don't ever ask me ever what you're supposed to do. It's very clear what you're supposed to do. Go after them, reflect the image of our Jesus, the one who left the 99 to find the ones, let them sit next to you, invite them into your life, and love them like Jesus would love them. Because I believe today, if Jesus Christ, this is Ben Pucas's opinion, as it's not rooted in Scripture. I know we say we bathe in scripture, but in podcast land, I can give you some of my opinions sometimes. I believe in 2026, if Jesus Christ were to come today, that he would be eating and spending time with people in the LGBTQ community. And I know some people listening, maybe this is some sound bite that you're gonna take and be like, see, he's a false teacher, but whatever, I don't care. This is why I don't care. Because Jesus spent so much time, scandalously, I might add, so much time with the broken and the lost that the Pharisees accused him of being a friend of sinners. And I just see Jesus, we'll get to this at the very end. I just see Jesus going, Thank you so much. Because I came for the sinners. But what was ironic is the people that were looking at Jesus and like rubbing their temples like I can't believe you're spending time with these horrible prostitutes and tax collectors. I just see Jesus being like, Ann How are you any different than them? You're not perfect either. You are not reconciled to God either. You think your righteousness makes you righteous? It doesn't. It's filthy rags. Literally, like maybe this is one of those explicit episodes, Russ, because I've used the word pornography already. But that word filthy rags, when in it's in Isaiah, it says your good works are like filthy rags to God. That word filthy rags isn't like a rag that you use to clean out an engine of a car. The the word filthy rag right there is actually translated used menstrual device to use tampon. So like when we go up to God and we're like, God, look at all the things I've done, and we hand him our good works, it's just like, you think that's something? And like these Pharisees that are looking at Jesus for spending time with these sinners, and Jesus is like, what makes you any better? He goes, Well, we keep the law and we do all these good things. I just see Jesus being like, You think that does that's anything? You think that does anything? I believe if Jesus came to 2026, he would be eating and he would be drinking and he would be laughing with people in the LGBTQ community. But so many people in 2026, so many people that live in the community of the LGBTQ community don't feel welcome in church. It's not that they don't want Jesus, it's not that they don't feel like that they need Jesus, it's the fact that they don't feel welcomed by his followers, so therefore they don't feel loved or welcomed by Jesus. How tragic is it if someone is searching for Jesus in any community, in the alcoholic community, in the LGBTQ community, in any community living outside of the design of God? How tragic would it be if their heart is telling them that they want Jesus and they want to be poured into and they want to be saved, but the church is not looking at them the way that Jesus has designed them to look at them and they don't feel like that that's for them. Jesus left the 99 to find them just as much as he left the the left the 99 to find us. And so how do we do that? How do we love them? Because yes, you're right, there is truth. There is design. God did create it to be between a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. What happens when it goes outside of that design? How do I do that in a way that doesn't just be like, ah, you can do whatever you want? Like there's still death and destruction. That's what sin is. Literally, another word for sin is death and destruction. Like it's the opposite of the design of God. God is life, God is light. Sin is the opposite. It's rebellion against God, and it's death and it's darkness. And when we live in death and darkness, we sow death and darkness, we reap death and darkness. So what do we do? And I think there's two major scenarios here. And really, there's only two, because there's only two kinds of people in this world. They're the people who are saved, and then there's the people who are not. And so I'm gonna simplify this. He said, This is what I would do, and this is honestly what I have done. Uh, being a pastor for ten years, I've had multiple people that have claimed uh living in the LGBTQ community while following Jesus, and people who have claimed to be in the community that don't want anything to do with him. And I'll tell you, it's very different my approach. Very different with the same foundation, and the same foundation to give you a spoiler alert is love. But if someone claims to follow Jesus and they they they say that they are now going to live in the LGBTQ community, the word, the phrase that's used a lot is this is the way God made me, and so I can't keep running away because God doesn't make mistakes. I want to say this right now uh God did not make anybody gay. God did not make anybody distorted. God is only capable of creating things inside of his design. If he goes outside of that, he is no longer good. Now, do I believe people can be born that way? That's a whole scientific thing. I actually do believe that. I've had friends that from the young earliest ages they could remember they were same-sex attracted. Now, if somebody is a follower of Jesus and they're like, you know what, this is a feeling that I have, I'm gonna act on it now, I'm gonna live in this lifestyle uh because this is just the way I feel. Man, I would treat this the same way as someone who's living in any other kind of sin. I would treat this the same way that if any of my friends, if Russ was like, hey, I think I'm gonna divorce Emily, like I'm not just gonna be like, okay, have fun, dude. That sounds fun. I'm gonna be like, you're doing what? Like, what happened to death do you part? What happened that when God said, What I have brought together, let no man separate, including you. Like, what I would do with Russ in that situation is I would have a very in-depth conversation with him. I'd be like, you know what? We're not gonna record the podcast this week. You and I are gonna go to lunch and I'm gonna figure out what the heck is going on with you and Emily. I want you to be honest with me. I want you to be vulnerable with me. Thank you for sharing with me. I love you and I'm always gonna love you. But what's going on, bro? Because you don't go from fine to divorced overnight. Why have I not known about this? Have you not talked to anybody about this? Have you guys gone to therapy? How can I pray for you? And no, I'm not just gonna sign off on this. No, I'm I'm not just gonna watch you throw your life away and live outside of the design of God. That's what I would do because I love Russ. And so many times people are like, Well, it's not your job. We can't put our nose in other people's businesses. That's a bunch of crap. Man, it is gonna be an explicit episode, Russ. We're gonna put an E at the bottom of this thing. I said so many words that at least YouTube's gonna be like, you can't say that. I mean, it's to say that you can't put your nose in it is wrong. It's just not true. Like, that's that's a defensive posture for people who are probably living in sin and don't want to be convicted for the things that they're doing. It's 100% our business because you see in the book of Joshua when Achan does that sin and they're trying to defeat the city of AI or IE. I like to say AI because it's fun, but they're trying to defeat the city of AI and Achan takes some of the devoted things and they get destroyed. Like one person sins, it affects everyone. But even if one person sinning didn't affect everyone, it affects them. I think so many times we're like, well, it's not affecting any of anybody else. We just got to let them do what they want unless they ask for help. No, I am never going to wait for someone to ask for help. If I am a shepherd and I'm watching a sheep walking to the edge of a cliff, I'm not gonna be like, well, they could have asked for help, but they didn't. So I guess I'm just gonna watch them fall off the cliff. No, as a shepherd, I'm gonna run to the edge of the cliff and be like, stop trying to do this. You're surrounding yourself with death and destruction. So if someone is living in the LGBTQ community and saying, you know what, I'm just gonna act on this. This is the way God made me, then I'm gonna do the same thing I did with Russ. I'm gonna meet with them and say, just because this is a feeling that you have, we as believers do not just act on feelings, we act on truth. What does God say? You may feel like this is something that you want, but man, like this is the design of God. You may, I'm not trying to make you straight. I'm not trying to say that, okay, you you need to now you know marry someone of the opposite sex because marriage, as we talked about in the singleness episode, isn't a promise of God. But no, what I'm saying is don't act on that. Like, here's the deal, man. I'll just another vulnerable thing in our explicit episode of Let's Go There. Like, I have a desire a lot of times to have sex with other women. I have a desire sometimes. I don't have internet on my phone. And the reason I don't have internet on my phone is because, you know, I've uh I have a desire to look at things that I don't need to look at. But just because I have the desire doesn't mean I act on it. And so I bro provide them with truth, not harshly, not arrogantly, but gently and patiently and humbly. And I'm gonna say, hey dude, like this is not, or hey, dudette, this is not the way that God designed you to live. And I want I want to call you to this. I want to call you to repentance. So then this is the second scenario in the last scenario uh if someone's not following Jesus, which is the most common one for me. There's been a couple of people that I've had that conversation with that do follow Jesus, but this it's super simple. And it's I hate to make it this simple. If someone doesn't know Jesus, I'm not gonna waste this is gonna sound man, the people are gonna unfollow us for this rest. I'm not gonna waste my time and my breath on sexuality. Because that person doesn't know Jesus. And let's say, best case scenario, I'd make it my priority number one. I'm gonna explain to them why this is wrong, and I'm gonna explain to them that what they're doing is outside of God's design, and let's say I succeed. Like check, they're like, you're right. I just made someone not live in the LGBT community, and they've stopped surrounding themselves with death, but they're still dying and they're going to hell. Someone saying that they identify in this way, and this is their pronoun, and and they are actually a boy, but really they were made to be a girl. I'm like, you know what? Fine. First of all, too, there's never been a single person that knew I knew Jesus that lived in the LGBTQ community that didn't know where I stood on it. Every one of them are like, I know you, I know they've said it to me. Like, I know that you think what I do is wrong, right? And I'll say it, I do not believe that's in God's design. But what I want to do is I want to love that person. I'm not just gonna throw them off to the road and be like, well, until you start living correctly, I'm not gonna share Jesus with you. No, I'm they'll talk about it and I'll be like, fine. Like, and I am somebody like this is just me being vulnerable. Like, if someone's like, my pronouns are this, I'm like, and they're not a believer, I'm like, fine, that's your pronouns for me now. Can I talk about Jesus now, please? Because why in the world would we ever think that someone will live a spirit-filled life without the spirit inside of them? The spirit is the one that convicts, the spirit is the one that leads the truth, not Ben Pucas. They know what I think. If they ask me a question, which almost every single time they do, I was like, no, I don't think that's inside of God's design. No, I don't think that's the way that you're supposed to be living. But the biggest thing that's outside of God's design is you're not known by him. You're you're dying and you're going to hell. Like, that's the least of your worries right now is your sexual identity. The most of your worries is the fact that you are not known by God. And if you died in this moment right now, you would not spend an eternity with him. So, no, I'm not going to spend time and waste my breath talking about this. I'm going to spend my time and Waste my bread talking about Jesus and keep bringing you back to Jesus. And if you want me to use those pronouns, that's fine. If you want me to call you a different name, that's fine. Because I will become, and that's where I believe, I will become all things to all people. So that by all means I might win some. Because there have been people that I have loved, and they're like, I don't understand, Ben. Like you're the only Christian that has ever loved me. I feel safe around you. I feel safe around the people that you do life with. And you know what? Because of that safety, I now have a seat at their table. I get to pour into them. I get to speak life into them. And there's one person in particular that sat. I'm just like, I don't understand. Like, I feel so loved right now. I don't know. Why do you feel like I feel loved? And have a relationship with somebody identifying to be a different gender than they were born as. And I got to sit next to them because we had a relationship, and I got to, in the most natural, God-honoring, God leading, it's one God was like, lay up. I got to share the gospel with this person. You feel love because man, like, I just want to tell you, like, the love that I have is not my love, but the love that I have is Jesus' love, and I got to share my story and I got to share the gospel and I got to talk about Jesus. Which years before, you try to talk about Jesus with this person, I mean this shut down, like, leave me alone. But now because we have relationship, now I'm sharing Jesus with them, and they're on the edge of their seat listening. Now there's not a happy ending to this story yet. That person still is dying and going to hell in this moment right now, but that person is a person that I've written down on a on a post-it note. And I pray for every single time that I see it. Good Lord, I pray that this person, I've prayed for them for years, would come to know you and just use me as a vessel. So I'm not going to try to waste my time with talking about sexuality because that's not their problem. Their main problem is the fact that they don't have Jesus. Now, once they give their life to Jesus and they have the Holy Spirit, now we get to have conversations of what it means to live for him. But why would I expect someone to live the biblical worldview of sexuality when they don't even believe the Bible to be true? And really, I I use that as just, and I look at the example of my Jesus. You know, we talked about in the beginning that he just sat with tax collectors and prostitutes and people that the Pharisees would never even like grace the door of. He's at their house. He went to Pharisees or to tax collectors' houses. Like, I'm just gonna tell you this right now. A Pharisee's life back in Jesus' day wasn't this like prim and proper. Like, there's some probably scandalous things happening in there. And you know what? They kept inviting him. They wanted to be around him, they longed to be around him. Are they around him because he's constantly looking at him? Like, you're not supposed to be doing this, you're living a sinful life. He looks at Zacchaeus up in the tree and doesn't go, you're stealing from people, you crooked thief. No, he looks at Zacchaeus and says, Hey, Zacchaeus, I'm going to your house today. I'm going to your house today. You know that song, children's song? Like, that's crazy. People in the crowd are probably like, Does he not know who he is? That's like the biggest thief in the town. And Jesus is like, I'm gonna go sit at your table, I'm gonna eat with you. And the Pharisees, it pissed them off, man. Made him so angry. And Jesus gives a parable when they say this. He gives three parables in Luke 15. The parable of the lost sheep, the parable of the lost coin, and the parable parable of the prodigal son. And do you do this is Ben Puchus's translation in it? I believe what Jesus was saying there was hey, so next time you see me sitting with sinners, instead of judging me from afar, why don't you pull up a seat and join me? Because I came to seek and to save the lost and to give my life as a ransom for many. And you know what, people? When we disagree with the lifestyle people live, people in the LGBTQ community, whatever it may be, Jesus came to die for them just as much as he came to die for us. And for us to just push those people away and to say you're living outside of the design of God, so see you wouldn't want to be it. I mean, that is so anti-gospel. Because every single person, no matter the community they live in, no matter the choices they've made, no matter the pronouns they use, every single person has been made in the image of God. Every single person has deeply loved by God, and every single person needs Jesus and needs Jesus to save them from their sin. Now, don't compromise truth. Don't fake it. Man, if it if, especially if a believer is living in sin, be the bold person that gently restores them, as it says in Galatians chapter 6. But also don't abandon love. Love people the way that Christ has loved us. Don't treat LGBTQ people like project, treat them like people Jesus died for. And what we need to be reminded of is as we live our lives, we don't need to ask ourselves what would Jesus do. We need to ask ourselves, what did Jesus do? And what Jesus did is he sat at the table with sinners. And if Jesus can sit at the table with sinners just like me and just like you and just like Russ, then so can we. And so that's the end of this podcast, talking about how to love people in the LGBTQ community. I believe pretty wholeheartedly, Russ, that this is just the beginning of this conversation. This is just bruh brushing a very deep topic. And so if this brought up questions, man, please slide into our DMs on Instagram, and please, there's a there's a link right there that you can send questions into. You can send an audio file if you want to. We want to hear from you. And so that is the end of this episode. We will see you next week on another episode of Let's Go There, where honest questions deserve honest answers. See you next week. And until then, hook us and Russ out.